posted May 24, 2000 03:52 PM               

Xenogears Ignition:
I see a lot of different opinions on this one... but in the way you see the game, who do you think started Xenogears, really? (And this doesn't include the creation of Zohar on Earth - we're sticking to the game timeline here.) Do you think Abel's presence sparked the awakening of Zohar/Deus, or do you think he was just an innocent bystander? (Do you actually think that the Captain's daughter was the first Elly...? ^.~ Not that it's possible, if Abel was the only surviving passanger!)

The Gazel Ministry:
Note Cain's turnaround, in the game's history... first he was dead-bent on achieving Miang's purpose, and then he becomes Solaris's sole champion of the people. Interesting, ne? Well...

What about the Ministry? They are the fathers of humanity, strictly speaking... just as Cain is THE father, aside from Deus/Zohar. According to all accounts, they changed quite a bit when they became a computer core - so would they, do you think, have become like Cain? Even in Xenogears, computers no longer have the ability to evolve beyond their programming without human aid, and that may very well be the reason for their obsession... not that they wouldn't have been better off dead.

Maybe next time, eh, Grahf?

Shevat:
Heh, where, I wonder, did these people come from... I completely faked a history for Shevat in my DeM files, but I've always been curious.... Oh, I know where their city came from, but what about the people themselves? Some of their technology is so Solarian... ^.~ Opinions? Translations I haven't gotten around to yet, for those of you with the Perfect Works?

I'll give it a rest now -- really. ^.^ I've run out of ideas that I actually want to air on a public board, and I have an update to work on. Not to mention those last two, pesky finals I have to study for...

Ja!

------------------
-- Amber Michelle
Insane Master Summoner

"On the heights, all paths are paved with daggers." -- Wheel of Time

posted May 24, 2000 06:06 PM            

The Beginning: I always felt Abel was initially just a bystander. If he did spark Zohar, that would have meant he was essentially destined to be a contact from the start, which... seems a bit... something. (Need to expand my vocabulary. ^_^;;; ) The captain's daughter also, in a way, provided the template for Elly, I think. (Since Elly was originally created to meet up to Abel's vision, he had to have gotten the inspiration somewhere.)

The Gazel: Hmm... That's.. a tough one. ^_^ Never thought about things that way before. It would probably be a question of who the Gazel were created to have their final loyalty to, Cain, Miang or Deus. [I should clear this up for myself: Cain and the Gazel were all born from Miang, right...? I used to be sure, but now I've confused myself. ^_^;] But would they have turned out like Cain... no, that's too hard to say one way or another. If we knew just when Cain became only a figurehead leader and when he had his change of heart so to say, then maybe it would make more sense. (Of course, maybe I just need sleep... Maybe everyone on these boards is just tired lately. ^_^)

Shevat: ...well... since it was during the Nisan era that Shevat fought for independence from Solaris, maybe the Sheviites and Solarians are branches from the same ethnic group? That would explain the similar technology, and being seperate from each other for so long would explain the differentation.

posted May 24, 2000 06:20 PM               

And I do believe - though this is only my opinion - that Cain's role as a figurehead began when Krelian saved his life (and the Ministry's) just after Diabalos. From then on, Krelian ran things, because he almost literally had them all by the throats...

And I just don't see how he could have bleached that beautiful hair without good reason. ^_~ (Yes, I'm a drooling fangirl for that sentence.) But he had to look Gazel... and he does look the part.

Ja.

------------------
-- Amber Michelle
Insane Master Summoner

"On the heights, all paths are paved with daggers." -- Wheel of Time

posted May 25, 2000 07:56 AM            

-Shades

posted May 26, 2000 11:10 PM               

"Well, I've had another one of my "revelations" again! This time I was pondering on this. If Deus was dismantelled and deactivated, how the hell did it turn itself on and try to destroy the Eldridge. To my understanding, Deus was dorment for quite sometime before that day on the Eldridge. So why then? Why would it take so long for Deus to realize, "Hey, they've dismantaled me and I can reactivate myself anyway..." It just didn't make sense to me.

But then I remembered something the Existence said... "I have always wanted to return to my own dimension... And I came to a conclusion. I had to reverse the process. I went through to arrive here. I must be released by the one who installed within me a special feature of this dimension-the 'will'... that one is you."

What I think happened is that the Wave Existence perposly activated Deus to save himself. At that point, the WE had looked at all his options and could ultamatly not find a way to escape Zohar. That's until a lost Able stumbled across a deactivated Zohar, longing for his mother. And he came to a conclusion. He would instill his power into the young contact to free himself from Zohar. But to do that, he had to reactivate Zohar, and consaquently, Deus trys to destroy the Eldrige.

This one desision makes all of the events in Xenogears possible. The WE also puts the entire Universe in danger because of this. He must have known that Deus would regain power if he gave Able the power. So instead of spending an eternity in a cage of fleshly existence, he desided to put the human race in jeopardy in the chance that he might be free. Makes you look at the Existence in a totally different way, doesn't it?"

So what do you think about that? If you want to see the feedback others gave me, here's a link directly to the topic:
noncgi/Forum2/HTML/000411.html

------------------
"Reinforcements? I am the reinforcements."

~Ashley Riot

What was the start of all this?
When did the cogs of fate begin to turn?

Perhaps it is impossible to grasp that answer now,
From deep within the flow of time...

But for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselfs...

Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whist our laghter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...

posted May 27, 2000 04:32 AM               

Construction on Deus wasn't even started until 4750 -- seventeen years before the Eldrige crashed. It began as "Project Zohar", then went to "Kadomony", then to "Deus". So I think - although I wont' claim THIS as fact just yet - Deus just wasn't finished until then.

But your theory looks good. ^_^ Even taking this into account, it doesn't change much. Zohar likely did activate Deus on its own -- there's no way Deus could have done what he did if someone hadn't reconnected his nervous system.

More on this later, when I make Deus's page. ^_^

Ja.

------------------
-- Amber Michelle
Insane Master Summoner

"On the heights, all paths are paved with daggers." -- Wheel of Time

posted May 27, 2000 11:02 AM               

Buuuut...
Shevet: Looking at the distinct difference between Shevetian's (Sp?) looks, and the Solarian's looks from the FMV in Xenogears, it isn't a 'branch off' as an earlier post said - logically, that much change in the actual physical structure of the....I'll skip the biology lesson, let's just say that'll take alot more then 500 years ;). My personal theory is that, rather, in the war, Shevet and Solaris stole/traded/whatever technology with each other, (Krelian's Nanotechnology, case in point, it probably did not exist prior to Krelian choosing Solaris) via spies, "trade agreements", or what have you. And, erm, I'd best get off the soap-box 'afore I embarass myself anymore. This opinion is something that I need to play Xenogears again to remember, and since my copy STILL hasn't been returned ;b, well, I'll sit here and await my soon-to-come embarassment ;)
-Continued from edit- And on to how they were created - With any culture in the world, you get outcasts. -nods to the -Lambs- in Xenogears- From Xenogears background, I assume they are banished Solarians. Once upon a time, in an unbelievably long time ago, I think that the Shevetians(sp) may have been banished, or whatever, from Shevet, but they somehow had some grasp of technology - Thus, creating Shevet, and giving it some sort of scientific basis on creating new technologies. Considering the rather large population of -Lambs-, some Solarians with some sort of educational background were probably expelled/whatever from Solaris. Since Solaris probably would want them back in case they brought technology to the -Lambs-, they would probably want to find or create a place of refuge. Of course, this might be entirely stupid, and may be sufficient to have me laughed off thhis forum in the morning, but hey, I've been up for 3 days straight :P. I'll probably look at this in the morning, and either look at it, and start blushing like a schoolgirl, and desperately mass-click on the "delete" button, or curse myself out for my total stupidity when I am entirely here in my own mind :P

Oh yeah, and a random question: What's with this "drooling fangirl" stuff? ;)

------------------
-Dulan de Laal, "I am the only one stupid enough to make the attempt at a Xenogears MUD!" -True Story!

posted May 27, 2000 03:31 PM               

I've always been of the opinion (though not loudly until DeM) that Shevat was a branch-off from Solaris. Their styles are somewhat similar, although Shevat leans toward a more organic look, their technology is similar -- and it was, in fact, at the same general level until Krelian took his newfound knowledge to Solaris.

There also aren't any notes of war between the two, until Nisan came into being. Sophia was obviously the catalyst... and Solaris seemed perfectly wiling to make a deal with Shevat. It can be argued that they would have done anything to get their hands on the Contact and the Anti-type, but... Solaris is not known for its diplomacy. They could have just blown their way in and taken what they wanted, and yet they went thorugh Shevat. Why would they be more willing to deal with Shevat than say... sympathizers in Nisan itself? Or Kislev? Or even more likely, Nimrod (at the time)?

It could be that they wished, also, to seperate Shevat from their powerbase among the land-dwellers, by making them look bad with this betrayal... or both. But it makes for a lot of interesting speculation, at least in my opinion.

Anything else? (And as for the 'drooling fangirl' thing... Well, I don't know about Shades, but Krelian just has that 'look'... ^.^ It's hard to resist looking at him - he was drawn so nicely that-- *smacks self* Okay, none of that here... Let's just say he's my... favorite. ^_^

Ja.

------------------
-- Amber Michelle
Insane Master Summoner

"On the heights, all paths are paved with daggers." -- Wheel of Time

posted May 27, 2000 05:20 PM               

quote:

---

Construction on Deus wasn't even started until 4750 -- seventeen years before the Eldrige crashed. It began as "Project Zohar", then went to "Kadomony", then to "Deus". So I think - although I wont' claim THIS as fact just yet - Deus just wasn't finished until then.

---

I'm assuming that you got this from PW. And it makes a lot more sense then what I was currently under the impression of. Other people on the board with PW (okay, so it was only A.C.) were saying that Deus was constructed way, way, way, before the Eldridge crash. There was also something about how Deus was set to attack Earth and that's why man had to retreat to space colonies, but I guess they were already up there.

------------------
"Reinforcements? I am the reinforcements."

~Ashley Riot

What was the start of all this?
When did the cogs of fate begin to turn?

Perhaps it is impossible to grasp that answer now,
From deep within the flow of time...

But for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselfs...

Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whist our laghter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...

posted May 27, 2000 10:42 PM               

CORRECTED comments ;b
Shevet: Looking at the distinct difference between Shevetian's (Sp?) physical looks and features, and the Solarian's looks from the FMV in Xenogears, it probably isn't a 'branch off' as an earlier post said - logically, that much change in the actual physical structure of the body....I'll skip the biology lesson, let's just say that'll take alot more then 500 years . My personal theory is that, rather, in the war, Shevet and Solaris stole/traded/whatever technology with each other, (Krelian's Nanotechnology, case in point, it probably did not exist in SOLARIS prior to Krelian going over to Solaris) via spies, "trade agreements", or what have you. And on to how they were created - With any culture in the world, you get outcasts. -nods to the -Lambs- in Xenogears- From Xenogears background, I assume they are banished Solarians. Once upon a time, in an unbelievably long time ago, I think that the Shevetians(sp) may have been banished, or whatever, from Shevet. Note Cain chasing Elly and Fei or whomever they are in that one FMV - but, they somehow had some grasp of technology - And, thus, probably creating Shevet, and giving it some sort of scientific basis on creating new technologies. Considering the rather large population of -Lambs-, some Solarians with some sort of educational background were probably expelled/whatever from Solaris by an accident. Since Solaris probably would want them back in case they brought their technology to the -Lambs-, they would probably want to find or create a place of refuge. A place where Solaris could not come, obviously However, considering that Shevet was probably "in the sky" prior to the 500 year war, and if I remember right, that one Solarian flying place thingamabobber (Darnit, I MUST replay the game!!! 9 times isnt even enough for me ) wasn't raised untill a little bit before the war.....or am I totally wrong? Hrm....Anyways, considering that, if everything I said is right, and that flying Solarian City wasn't raised untill early on in the war, or slightly before it, and I just lost what the hey I was thinking about :P Oh yeah, Shevet. Considering that Shevet was probably up in the sky prior to the one Solarian Flying City which I forgot the name to, or even if they were raised later -I need to get me a Perfect Works ;b Or just replay Xenogears 'till my brain explodes....- they were probably tired of Solaris' view of technology being more then humans -The one processing plant, Soylent, case in point?- and thus, created their more organically-friendly technology.....Umm, I dunno anymore ;b I'm desperate for sleep, it's Saturday, and I just missed my daily bit of Xenogears RP.....so I'll continue this later.

ANOTHER Random Q: Uhhh, I forgot it. It had something to do with the fan schtuff. I really need to get some sleep though :P Oh yeah, another one ;b There's about 50 billion typOs (D'OH!) on the pages -No offense intended, Myaru -, mind if I start proofreading and/or sending them to someplace?

------------------
-Dulan de Laal
Uhh, I forgot.....

[This message has been edited by Dulan (edited May 27, 2000).]

posted May 30, 2000 08:00 PM               

Dr. Uzuki:
That's what I gathered from the Perfect Works... Deus itself - that particular part of the system - doesn't seem to have really been conceived until the timeframe that I mentioned.

Now, Zohar was started long before that. And since Zohar-Deus-Kadomony was one system, that may be how his friends are translating that. They were built in that order, as far as I can tell, Deus-Kadomony coming much later than Zohar itself.

This does not, however, mean I'm infallible. ^^ As much as I wish I were... (recalls Thrawn) ...I'm not fluebnt at all. ^^ But this is how I see it, going by what it says in the timeline, and also the diagram beneath it. So... go with what makes more sense to you. I think I'm right of course, but that's not a guaranttee. ^_~

But the pretty pictures seem to support my theory... eh, anyway. I can only read half of what THOSE say. ^.^ I think it's time I give my dictionary more exercise, wouldn't you say?

Ja.

------------------
-- Amber Michelle
Insane Master Summoner

"On the heights, all paths are paved with daggers." -- Wheel of Time

posted May 30, 2000 10:01 PM               

I actually got some sleep, so I am a bit more understandable. However, why is making you think bad? ;) Darnit, thinking is good! Thinking....uhhhh, I'll shut up now. I'm just trying to figure out UBB ;b

Oh yeah, at least I understood posts when I was utterly exhausted ;b It took me 3 reads of that post before I saw that you did say you were not infallable, instead of you were not inflatable ;) Anyways, I just bought a PW book for $120, I'll take a hand at translating it if you want any help -drool- At the very least, it'll be worth it just for the pretty pictures! ;)

------------------
- Dulan de Laal
The one that searches for what a drooling fangirl is! ;)

[This message has been edited by Dulan (edited May 30, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Dulan (edited May 30, 2000).]

posted May 31, 2000 09:56 AM               

This begs the question... was Zohar intended for military purposes in the first place? Deus, aptly named the Planetary Attack System (or some other bit of military mumbo jumbo), is obviously a military weapon. Perhaps Zohar was claimed by the miltary when it became ultimately powerful? Then again... who would they be deploying Deus against, anyways?

One of the theories that I tend to see alot is that the Eldrige had Deus onboard so they could dispose of it. Dues was restrained (and given its dangerous and half sentient nature, this is a good idea) but if they were intending to dispose of the unit, why didn't they disassemble it further?

I think that the reason they were dragging Deus across the universe is so that when they discovered a planet that would be suitable to human habitation, they would deploy Dues... who would then destroy any native species and remake the planet into something fit for human colonization.

Ah well... unlike Myaru, I can't read much of my copy of PW, so I'll have to be content with waiting for the translation. ^^

posted June 01, 2000 12:17 AM               

Whatever Zohar was used for before Deus, whether it was space exploration or being used as a power plant, the military eventually got a hold of it. This was either because hostile beings from another planet threatened them, or because they wanted to control another alien planet. Either way, you'd think that they wouldn't just build this massive overpowering weapon for no good reason.

Anyway, when they finally build Deus and hooked it up to Zohar, it cannot power it on its own. But that's not really an option for Zohar sinse it was programmed to always find a way and to make the impossible possible. So according to Miang, when they tested out Deus the whole system went berserk and Deus destroyed an entire planet in one swift blow. I think this was a direct result of Zohar tapping into the infinate power phonomina, pulling down the WE into this diamention.

And Deus was disasembled. Completely. I don't know how they managed it, but none of the parts of System YAWAH (YABAH?) were conected to one another and the were all deactivated. The only way for it all to function again was for the WE to directly cause it (see my above post).

And Deus was on its way to being thrown away onto some deserted planet. But of course Deus was not aware, it was just a deactivated machine. But the WE knew what was going on. It was his only chance for freedom, putting his plan into motion, and 10,000 long years later, it actually works.

------------------
"Reinforcements? I am the reinforcements."

~Ashley Riot

What was the start of all this?
When did the cogs of fate begin to turn?

Perhaps it is impossible to grasp that answer now,
From deep within the flow of time...

But for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselfs...

Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whist our laghter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...

posted June 01, 2000 01:12 AM               

-Dul, I'll post more later

posted June 04, 2000 10:03 AM               

Oh, anyone who actually wants to help me get a direct translation of the book is welcome - There are plenty of paragraphs I can't get to right now because I'm working on the timeline. Just e-mail me -- believe me, I'm happy for any help I can get.

Now, about Zohar/Deus/Kadomony.... Well, please forgive me if I make any obvious mistakes or blunders -- I'm recovering from a bit of an illness right now. It probably didn't help that I got no real sleep, either.

From what I gather, Zohar started as simply a scientific experiment... It was an official project, which leads me to believe that it was meant more for say.... finding a better, more efficient way to provide power for the world, not as a weapon. A generator of that caliber would be a great help to our world, as you all know, and considering this was in 2001... that fits. The need for less pollution, better and less expensive power sources...

But Zohar drew more power than was expected. It must have been the way the person designed it originally -- they detected a power source (for anyone who has read the Wheel of Time to any great length, it's like when they 'sensed' a power both men and women could use behind a barrier) -- that's what they call the "origin of species" at the top of the page. Its power seemed so infinite that they tried to use Zohar to tap into it... and that's how the Existence was trapped.

And that's what triggered the barrier around Earth, I think. When they finally finished Zohar, it was around that time... because it looks like they spend many, many years trying to get it to work correctly and tap into that new power source they found. It was already functioning before perhaps, but not as well as they'd hoped.

But regardless, they had to leave Earth, and they took Zohar with them on the transport. They found other planets... I'm not sure if they reached them, but I know they found something. And from that point on, I believe that Zohar and its branch systems became the property of the Military, for obvious reasons.

Deus obviously has terraforming capabilities... and with the advancement of the technology on earth, I think Deus did have a will of its own once it was finished. Artificial Intelligence was a normal thing, on the Eldrige. But as they started building these parts onto Zohar, they must have realized the power it had; and if it had its own will - to a certain extent, that is - then I would dismantle it too. I'm not sure if they actually guilt it in pieces or not, but they did a good job... they used the MAM material to make it strong, hence its name... And eventually, Deus was seperated from his body - they ripped his central nervous system out and kept it preserved in a sort of embryo (what we see in that flash during the intro movie)... at least, that's what /I/ think when I see them talking that way about Deus's 'Spinal Shaft'. ^^; I could be wrong. Always remember that...

I'm also of the opinion that it was Zohar that awakened Deus and gave it the capability to link to the ship. I mean, Deus was in no way linked to the Eldrige, except by life-support systems; but Zohar was the Eldrige's main reactor, it's one major power supply, and its energy was routed through the entire ship. Although what they were thinking when they connected the three to 'project Zohar' is beyond me - if Deus in itself was that dangerouns, then that was a stupid move... of course, if they needed Zohar's energy to complete it...

It's not clear if they knew that Zohar was a sentient entity or not. I doubt it, personally, but I see no indication (that I can read) at this moment to say either way.

**flips through the PW to look at the timeline again; half of the timeline falls out**

Oh sigh... ^.^;

If I missed anything, please do tell me. I've written enough right here that I forgot most of it once I reached the end... ^^ Sad, isn't it? Maybe I should go to bed when it's still dark tonight.

Ja! ^_^

------------------
-- Amber Michelle
Insane Master Summoner

"On the heights, all paths are paved with daggers." -- Wheel of Time

posted June 05, 2000 07:28 PM               

**looks at the post** Good lord, even I wouldn't post to this for awhile. It's HUGE. Gomen!

Ja!

------------------
-- Amber Michelle
Insane Master Summoner

"On the heights, all paths are paved with daggers." -- Wheel of Time

posted June 09, 2000 11:41 AM               

Ja!

------------------
-- Amber Michelle
Insane Master Summoner

"On the heights, all paths are paved with daggers." -- Wheel of Time